Welcome to the Stanford Pre-Law Society's February/March Newsletter! We've had many informative events this quarter that you can read about in this edition, including our JD/MBA panel, public interest law panel and presentation on life at law school by a Stanford alumnus attending NYU Law School. Remember to check out our upcoming events in the spring quarter!

In this edition:

• A Message from the Pre-Law Advisor
• Learning About Law School: Criteria for Admission
• Undergraduate Law-Related Classes for Spring Quarter 07-08
• Website Spotlight: Bay Area LSAT Preparation Course Guide
• SPLS in the Stanford Daily
• Winter Quarter Event Highlights
• Upcoming Events

Arrange an appointment with a UAR academic advisor to discuss what law schools look for in an ideal candidate and also to develop your own criteria for your unique law school experience.

Timing is important. By the middle of the junior year, most students would benefit from consulting with a UAR advisor to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of applying to law school as a senior versus taking a year or two to gain experience before applying. It's important to have a plan for taking the LSAT, gathering recommendations, developing a list of potential law schools in the context of your academic record, and considering all your options. These are topics we are happy to help you consider.

Undergraduate Advising and Research is located on Sweet Hall, 1st Floor.
Call 723-2426 or go to http://undergrad.stanford.edu to arrange appointments.

Kathy Wright
UAR Associate Director

Criteria that are considered important by most law school admission committees include: LSAT score; undergraduate GPA; personal statement; work experience or other postgraduate experiences; undergraduate course of study; graduate work; history of difficulties (financial, personal, physical) overcome; college attended; improvement in grades; college curricular and extracurricular activities; ethnic/racial background; letters of recommendation; community activities; proven leadership; each applicant's unique character and background. There are also criteria unique to particular schools, which you discover by direct contact with the school.

Law schools do not require any specific major or undergraduate coursework, but if you're interested in taking classes related to law, here is what's being offered next quarter:

For more complete information and the most up-to-date meeting times and location, see the course listings on Axess.

Thinking about taking the LSAT soon? The LSAT is offered four times a year in June, October, December, and February. For exact registration deadlines, exam dates, and much more information about taking the LSAT and applying to law school, visit the Official LSAT Site of the Law School Admission Council website.

If you are considering an LSAT preparation course, the Stanford Pre-Law Society has posted a course guide on our website. Click here to access the course guide. The Stanford Pre-Law Society does not endorse any test prep company and makes no guarantees about the quality of the programs listed in the guide. The course guide merely provides information about what is available in LSAT preparation in the Bay Area.

The Stanford Daily featured an article on the Stanford Pre-Law Society's annual Shadowing Week on Tuesday, January 29, 2008.

Undergraduates shadow law life, coursework, by Salone Kapur

Yesterday marked the first day of the Stanford Pre-Law Society’s (SPLS) Law School Shadowing Week — a week-long event that allows undergraduates to attend Law School classes. Delving into issues ranging from capital markets to constitutional law resolution, the program allows undergraduates interested in law to get an insider’s glimpse into the law school experience. As one of SPLS’s most popular events, 63 undergraduates and seven law professors are participating in this year’s program.

Read the rest of the article at The Stanford Daily’s website: http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2008/1/29/undergradsShadowLawLifeCourseload

Missed an SPLS event you wanted to go to because of a schedule conflict? Not to worry -- in this section of our newsletter, we include highlights from our most interesting events.

Law vs. Business School Panel • Wednesday, January 23, 2008

On Wednesday, January 23, the Stanford Pre-Law Society and Stanford Pre-Business Society hosted a panel discussion featuring Stanford Law School and Stanford Business School students along with JD/MBA students. Hearing from students who are currently in the professional school of your choice can be a great way to find out whether it is really the best path for you because the applicability of skills, atmosphere and course-load can differ significantly between schools and between professions.

Below are some of the views that panel members expressed at the event:

• If you already know what business you want to work in and you just need to know how to start things up and run a business, then go to business school.



• If you know you want to work in law or policy, then law school makes sense. Law school is far more 'limiting' in terms of the breadth of jobs that graduates take.

Panelists’ views on applying for a JD/MBA:

• Applicants to JD and MBA programs (and especially combined JD/MBA programs) should reflect long and hard before settling on a program. They should judge what is important for themselves, what their life goals are, what they would be happy doing. Both degree programs take a long chunk out of one's twenties so applicants must be sure that they are really committed to their chosen profession.



• Quote: "Nobody needs an MBA."



• Both business school students, and especially law school students, emphasized the benefits to graduating undergraduates of taking time off from academia after their undergraduate degree to think about what they want with their lives. Law school is a very specific, technical training that doesn't benefit people who are not committed to it. The business training from MBA programs is more flexible, on the other hand, and it can be applied to a wide range of situations and industries. Students should be absolutely sure that they are committed to their chosen field of study before enrolling in a professional school.



• Almost everybody who has done the combined JD/MBA program at Stanford has started at the law school and applied to the business school, or taken their first year at the law school before starting business school classes (the first year at law school is often judged the most challenging).



• Quote: "People really don't understand the framework of the law until they get to law school."



• As an undergraduate, opportunities will open to you if you get to know your professors, so go to their office hours and get to know them personally. Work for a professor and they will get to know you better and write you a glowing recommendation or recommend you to a job if they like you.

Panelists’ views on being in the dual degree programs:

• Business school is more demanding than law school on the whole, but more time is spent studying in law school. In business school, students spend much of the time networking and attending recruiting events, social events, etc., in addition to class learning, which makes the total time commitment higher.



• Business school class sessions are more fun and more interactive. The celebrated 'Socratic' method in law school isn't so much a give-and-take, as students being randomly called on every once in a while to provide some information.



• Those who pursue both JD and MBA degrees should be careful about their choice: the road is very long and expensive: students can graduate with over $200,000 in debt. Inevitably, JD/MBAs pursue a career that places more demand on one set of skills than the other, and the other degree becomes redundant (a so-called 'commodity degree'). Employers are wary of employing JD/MBAs because they cost more to hire than someone who has earned just one of those degrees.



• The JD and MBA are as different as 'night and day.'



• Joint JD/MBA students note that the law school and the business school have very different environments - the business school is more social, while the law school can be more academic (even though Stanford Law School parties are crazier).

Panelists’ views on graduating with a JD/MBA:

• There are very few actual cases of people who have a genuine need for both degrees.



• International experience is required in the business school; the vast majority of business school students engage in some aspect of study abroad or internship abroad during their two years. Law school students do not get the same exposure to international opportunities, and the opportunities to study abroad are limited by the fact that students must study American law; many people nevertheless get the opportunity to observe the practice of American law abroad while doing summer internships for law firms. Some law graduates are able to find positions abroad after they graduate, but they are nevertheless practicing American law.



• A lot of what business lawyers do has very little to do with what law students learn in law school.



• Both business, banking and the law require very long hours, especially for those starting on the bottom rungs, but all professions require that at one point or another. Be prepared for long hours and make sure that you can work it into your family plans.



• It may seem a long way off, but many JD and MBA students are still studying into their late 20s; the long hours of studying and at their first jobs can take a toll on family life at this stage in life.

Spotlight Panel: Public Interest Law Careers • Monday, February 25, 2008

On Monday, February 25, the Stanford Pre-Law Society co-sponsored a public interest law panel with the Haas Center for Public Service and the Career Development Center. Our distinguished panelists included Susan Feathers, Executive Director of Stanford Law School's John and Terry Levin Center for Public Service and Public Interest Law; Jeanne Merino, a housing attorney for Community Legal Services in East Palo Alto; Amy Chen, a health access attorney for Bay Area Legal Aid in Oakland; and Brian Blalock, a youth justice attorney also for Bay Area Legal Aid in Oakland.

Panelists first addressed the fundamentals of what public interest law is, noting that there are two primary areas: "direct service" public interest law, in which attorneys directly work with clients, and "impact" public interest law, in which attorneys work to affect change within a broad policy area. They then commented on the particular challenges of working in public interest law. All panelists agreed that money, resources, and the inability to help everyone who needs it comprise the greatest challenges.

Panelists then offered advice to undergraduates seeking to work in public interest law. Susan Feathers remarked on the enormous disparity between those who enter law school intending to work in public interest and those who actually end up in this area. Approximately 85 percent of prospective law students say they want to pursue public interest law, while a very small fraction of that number end up taking this path. Amy Chen noted that this steep attrition rate can be very disillusioning, and emphasized that students need to hold on to their vision for change throughout law school. To do this, Chen underscored the importance of finding a supportive, public interest law community at law school.

For those looking to "take time off" between college and law school, panelists recommended that students work at an organization that does things other than solely legal work so students could see how "all the parts work together." When choosing a law school, they advised students to look at a given school's clinics and faculty. Clinics are important because that's how law students get experience and prepare to be good public interest lawyers; faculty that are also practicing lawyers are also particularly helpful in giving students hands-on, practical experience.

Law School 101: A Student Perspective • Friday, February 29, 2008

On February 29, 2008, Stanford alumnus Jen Chen met with Stanford undergraduates at an event hosted by SPLS to talk about her experiences applying for and attending law school. Here is a synopsis of her talk (views herein are strictly those of the speaker and are not endorsed by SPLS):

On choosing a school and applying:

• It's good to take some time out before going to law school; law school don't look upon this disfavorably. Going to law school takes a significant amount of time and money, so it's best to take time out and make sure it's going to be the right choice for you before you commit.



• When choosing a law school, remember that its rank will be important when it comes to securing a job after graduation; thus, within your constraints, you should try and go to the best law school you can get into.



• There are good schools with strengths in certain areas (for example, NYU has strong course offerings in taxation law, international law and corporate law), so if you have a strong interest in a certain area then do your research and aim for the best law school you can get into that is also strong in your field.



• If you want to go into public interest law, which pays relatively less than private firms, then cost will be a consideration when you choose your law school. It's still important to pick the best school given your constraints, but some schools will have Loan-Repayment Assistant Programs (LRAPs) that will help repay your loans should you choose to go into public interest law. Check out each schools LRAP, because they can differ significantly between law schools.

On what to expect at law school:

• At the beginning, law school life doesn't give students time to adjust to the fast pace of classes so students have to work hard in the first year to keep on top of their academics.



• In the first year, law schools follow a required curriculum so students typically have no choice in which classes they take. This year is highly structured, because the American Bar Association has class/hour requirements for each category of law (e.g. tort law) that law schools must satisfy to be certified. Some schools (such as NYU) do have elective first year classes, but they are rather unique.



• In law school there are no problem sets or homework as in undergraduate courses, but students do have to study a lot if they want to do well on the final. Studying involves reading and memorizing cases and their outcomes from course readers in order to be able to structure an argument in a final exam; finals involve writing essays in which students construct arguments based on a given fact pattern, while citing back to the cases studied earlier. In essence, the process is not as 'fact-driven' as undergraduate learning, but places more emphasis on the process of constructing arguments.



• Grading is very different from undergraduate work; students must motivate themselves to do well. First year grades are crucial to securing a good internship or clerkship later on.



• Over the summer after the first year at law school, students get jobs; they don't have to be jobs in law firms (which might even be difficult to secure given the current legal job market), but they do have to be in the legal field and be a valuable use of time. For example, students can look for opportunities in public interest organizations; Jen Chen received a bursary from NYU to work at a Human Rights organization in Paris.



• In the second year of law school, students spend time searching for a summer job for the summer after their second year. If all goes well, this will lead to a job after graduation. By October of the second year of law school, students know where they will be working for the summer (although hiring for public interest law organizations occurs later). Students typically work at firms (especially if they want to work in the private sector), or else they research for professors, etc.



• In the third year, students have a lot of choice in the classes that they can take, and students can also specialize in areas of law that interest them. There is typically less pressure to perform well this year, since most students will have already figured out where they will work after they graduate.



• In the second and third years, students may elect to arrange post-graduate clerkships, which is a job that involves researching aspects of law for a judge. Clerkships are valuable experience and can be an asset when looking for a job.

On NYU Law School:

• NYU Law has particular strengths in taxation law, international law and corporate law. It is set in a vibrant part of New York, although it doesn't have a campus (just two buildings and a dorm).



• The first-year elective system sets it apart from its peers as it allows 1L students to have insight into more specialist legal fields.



• Eleven percent of students go into public interest law after graduation and even if this doesn't sound like a big number it is large compared to peer institutions. There is a significant amount of interest in public interest law among the student body.



• NYU attracts strong professors and students from around the world.

Want to stay up-to-date on SPLS events? Add our calendar to your Google calendar!

Mentorship Program Ice Cream Social • Thursday, April 3, 8:00PM • Location TBA

Participants in the SPLS Mentorship Program are invited to this ice cream social to reconnect after spring break.

"World of Law" Panel: Legal Careers in Government • Thursday, April 10, 7:00PM • Tresidder Union, Cypress Lounge

Join SPLS for a panel discussion and Q&A with Stanford alumni currently working as government attorneys.

Lunch with a Law Professor • Friday, April 18, 12:00-1:00PM • Location upon RSVP

The Stanford Pre-Law Society is honored to host Stanford Law Professor Jennifer Koh for an informal luncheon and Q&A. RSVPs for this event will open on Friday, April 11.

Upcoming SPLS events also will include an LSAT seminar, an information session with local law school representatives, and much more. Check your email and our website for dates and details in the coming weeks!

Thanks for reading! We are always interested in hearing your feedback, so feel free to drop us a line at president@stanfordprelaw.com.