Papers of Martin Luther King, Jr.

24 February 1965
Los Angeles, Calif.

        [Q:] Dr. KING, do you consider the life of ELIJAH MUHAMMAD is in danger at this particular time?
        [K:] Well, I think we must face the fact that there are some very ghastly and nightmarish aspects of violence taking place at this time and it does seem to be a feud between some of the Black Nationalists groups. Consequently, I think we have to face the fact that there is probably some danger on the life of ELIJAH MUHAMMAD. I think this is very unfortunate. I think this whole episode and as I said, this ghastly nightmare of violence and counter-violence is very unfortunate and must be condemned by all people of goodwill.

        [Q:] Dr. KING, what could it possibly lead to if worse came to worse?
        [K:] Well, it just continues to degenerate and to darken nights of violence. I think it has to stop somewhere. It isn’t good for the image of our nation. It isn’t good for the Negro cause. It isn’t good for anything that we hold dear in our country and our democracy. I believe firmly in non-violence. I think we have got to learn to disagree without being violently disagreeable and this whole philosophy of expressing dissent through murder must be vigorously condemned.

        [Q:] DR. JAMES FARMER has indicated that he believes this is part of an international conspiracy. Do you have any comment on this?
        [K:] Well, I don’t--I know about that. I have no knowledge to follow through or make such a statement. This may well be but my knowledge doesn’t reveal this and I don’t try at this point to even further a speculation as to who assassinated MALCOLM X. The Police Department of New York, I assume, is vigorously investigating this and I think until the investigation is finished I would withhold any statement about the person or persons who perpetrated this dastardly act.

        [Q:] DR. KING, you have just come from Selma. What is the feeling of the Negro in general about this thing that is going on now as far as the Black Muslims are concerned. Do they have a feeling about it?
        [K:] Well, I think the general feeling in the Negro community, that this is very unfortunate and that we have such large problems to deal with in getting rid of racial injustice that it is both impractical and immoral to be fighting among ourselves. I think this is the general attitude that prevails among the people that I have had a chance to talk with about it.

        [Q:] DR. KING, is there a present threat to your life?
        [K:] Well, I get threats quite often. This is almost a daily and weekly occurrence. I mentioned in Selma just the other day that I had received information from reliable sources that there would be an attempt to take my life and that there was an attempt when I was in Marian, Alabama which is in Perry County about a week ago but at the time I was surrounded by a number of people and I was never clear enough to be a target and we got some anonymous threats on Monday when I returned to Selma; so that this continues and its something that we get, as I said, ever so often.

        [Q:] Did this information come to you from a well placed source like the FBI?
        [K:] Well, no it didn’t come from the FBI. This information did come from investigative agencies though. Particularly the incident in Marian. This came from sources within the investigative machinery of the State.

        [Q:] Now, when you say the threat on your life. Your not talking now about from the Black Muslim or the Nationalists. Your talking about white segregationists.
        [K:] Oh yes, from segregationists.

        [Q:] DR. KING, have the threats on your life been increasing, the number of them. Have they been increasing?
        [K:] Well, they always increase when we get in the heat and the heighth of the movement. They tend to decrease in periods when we are not in an intensified development but I think that whenever we have ben in the midst of a determined struggle, whether it was in Birmingham or St. Augustine Florida, or Albany, Georgia, or now in Selma. The threats tend to increase at that time.

        [Q:] May I ask you this. What is your understanding of the specific legislation that is being drafted now in the Justice Department that would apply to such situations that exist in Selma?
        [K:] I don’t have the details on this legislation. Some of my lawyers will be talking with the Attorney General today about it. I talked with Attorney General Katzenbach on Monday about the registrars but only in general terms and he said that they were reaching the point now that they wanted to finalize it and in a few days it would be presented to the President but as far as specifics, I can’t say at this time. I would hope that it will include a provision for federal registrars and certainly a provision that will get rid of the so called literacy tests and I think these federal registrars, if the bill is to be meaningful, must be appointed by and responsible to the President. The present bills that we have which came through the 1957, 1960, and 64 sections of the Civil Rights Bill on voting rights at points tend to institutionalize the difficulties and it does provide a provision that federal referees can be appointed by federal judges. Now we have a case right now in Marian, Alabama, where they have a federal referee but Judge Thomas appointed a federal referee from Hale County, one of the adjoining counties and he done registered more Negroes than the registrars, so that these--we made a system now whereby federal registrars will be responsible to and appointed by the President himself.

        [Q:] Is it your understanding that the President wants this?
        [K:] Well, in my recent conversations with the President, I get this impression. Now he hadn’t made any definite promise to me and he hadn’t formulated a bill in his mind at that time and he made it clear that he would rely on the Justice Department to study this in depth and to make a recommendation but he strongly feels that something must be done beyond the present bills that we already have.

        [Q:] Dr. King, do you feel there is a possibility that something might happen to you some time? Have you made arrangements for someone to carry on--something like President andVice President have if anything happens?
        [K:] O, yes, we have in our movement many dedicated, intelligent and dynamic leaders. We have this in my own organizations and we have definitely discussed these things very realistically. We are not fooling ourselves about the dangerous possibilities that we face.

        Q. Could one of your men fall heir to your particular leadership?
        K. Well, I would say the Southern Christian Leadership Conference--Dr. Ralph Abernathy is the closest associate that I have and my closest advisor and the man who articulates the meaning of our movement extremely well and who is dedicated absolutely to the philosophy of non-violence, and is a great leader in his own right.

        Q. Dr. King, what is your attitude toward the threats that you received?
        K. Well, I guess I have learned now to take them rather philosophically. I think this cause is right and because of my deep feeling about the rightness of the cause, it gives me courage to carry on, and I think that one has to conquer the feeling of death if he is going to do anything constructive in life and take a stand against evil, and I go along with the view that one who has not found something so true and so meaningful and profound that he will die for it is not fit to live, so I am prepared to face anything that comes in standing up to this struggle with the great belief and the great feeling that unmerited suffering is redemptive.

        Q. Do you feel that civil rights investigation out of Washington has accomplished anything at all? And if it has, what?
        K. I think it accomplished a great deal; first, they brought the attention of the Nation to the situation in Selma, and brought to the people of Selma and the Black Belt Counties in general, the kind of expression of support that gave them a new sense of hope. I think the third thing that came out of it was the fact that these Senators were--the Representatives were absolutely convinced that there were glaring injustices and denials on the question of voting rights in Selma, Alabama, and, on the basis of that, some went back and introduced bills so that we already have some bills that have been introduced by members of the House and I think that with the bills introduced and the Administrative Bill that will soon come, we can get the best elements out of all these and will emerge with a very strong bill.

        Q. Dr. King, I wonder if you will not identify the high government official who said there is a threat against your life, if you will tell us why you don’t identify him?
        K. Well, I am not at liberty to identify. Many of these things come confidentially and in order to continue that investigation it is necessary so often not to reveal these things, so I would not like to reveal any names.

        Q. You insist it was a high federal official who informed you?
        K. Well, I can say that the Attorney General called me on Monday and expressed great concern about my safety and made if very clear that they are concerned..

        Q. Did he give you information about the threat on your life?
        K. Well, I didn’t go into that with him. These things are not too pleasant to discuss so I didn’t want to go into great detail. I usually like to talk with some of my aides about it and after that I got three additional calls which tended to confirm the fact that threats had been made.

        Q. Yesterday a group of Republican Senators asked this question: what is the White House doing to meet the need of universal registration laws that were pointed up by you in Selma? I wonder if you will answer this question?
        K. Well, I am very happy to see these very outstanding Republicans take this courageous and necessary stand on the immediacy--the need, rather--of immediate legislation. I think there is activity going on and I think the Administration is serious about this--I am sure that the Attorney General is serious when he said they are moving to the point of formalizing some bill to present to Congress. But I guess all of us need a little prompting at times and I hope that the strong statement made by the outstanding Republicans will cause the Administration to move a little faster because I think it is urgent to get this legislation immediately and we certainly don’t want to see it drag out in Congress and don’t want to see a fillibuster, and we don’t want to see this put off in order to deal with some other issue that may be important--this is just as important as any other issue facing our nation today.

        Q. Dr. King, it would appear in the reports that we have out of the South that not as many people have showed up in the last few days for the demonstrations for voter registration. Is there a diminishing interest among the folk down there?
        K. Oh, not at all; I think it is as strong as it has ever been. The fact is that we have outdone ourselves and we have turned out more people than we really anticipated by this time. We have gotten more than 2200 Negroes in Selma to appear to sign what is called the “appearance sheet”. We were aiming at 3000 by July and we already have 2200, so it means that by touching that many people we don’t have as many people to follow along now to sign the “appearance sheet”. It means we must get into the community to find the people who have not signed it.

        Q. You are not depressed that only a couple of hundred have shown up from time to time in the last few days?
        K. Oh, not at all. I think the enthusiasm is as high as ever--the determination is as great, and I have no doubt about the fact that the Negroes in Dallas County are going through with this and they are determined to get the vote and they aren’t going to stop until it happens.

        Q. Will you be going back to Marion soon?
        K. I will be going back Monday of next week to hold demonstrations there.

        Q. Dr. King, would you be good enough to repeat what you said at the beginning about the whole Black Muslim situation of violence?
        K. Yes, this ghastly nightmare of violence and counter-violence is something that must be condemned by all people of goodwill in this nation. I don’t think violence solves any social problem; it only creates new and ore complicated problems. I think it is also--necessary to say that the assassination of Malcolm X was an unfortunate tragedy and it reveals that there are still numerous people in our nation who have degenerated to the point of expressing....murder, and we haven’t learned to disagree without being violently disagreeable.
        I think it is even more unfortunate that this great tragedy occurred at a time when Macolm X was re-evaluating his own philosophical presuppositions and moving toward a greater understanding of the non-violent movement and toward more tolerance of white people, generally.
        But I think one must understand that in condemning the philosophy of Malcolm X, which I did constantly, that he was a victim of the dispair that came into being as a result of a society that gives so many Negroes the nagging sense of “nobodyness”. And just as one condemns the philosophy, he must be as vigorous in condemning the continued existence in our society of the conditions of racial injustice, depression and man’s inhumanity to man.
        I think there is a lesson that we can all learn from this all over the nation and that is that violence is impractical and that now, more than ever before, we must pursue the course of non-violence to achieve a reign of justice and a rule of love in our society, and that hatred an violence must be cast into the unending limbo if we are to survive.

        Q. Dr. King, do you intend to attend the funeral?
        K. No, because of the engagements that I have here. But I will certainly extend my sympathy to his wife and to his family and, as I said, this has come as a great shock to so many of us and although we had constant disagreements, I had a deep affection for Malcolm and I am very sorry about the whole thing.

        Q. Is there any real fear in your mind that more and more Negroes are becoming “dis-affected” with non-violence?
        K. No, I think--on the contrary, Negroes are now more convinced than ever that non-violence is the most potent weapon available to an oppressed people in their struggle for freedom and for human dignity, and I think more and more people are coming to see that this is the most practically sound and morally excellent way to deal with the problem.
        I don’t think anybody should feel that the violence that is presently taking place is an indication of the feeling of a large segment of the Negro community. I think this represents a very small, fanatical minority and nothing like majority of the Negroes.
        The Negroes, by and large, are peace-loving and willing to at least follow the technique of non-violence in their struggle for voting rights.

        Q. Is there anything short of massive federal intervention going to make any substantial change in the situation in Alabama?
        K. I must be honest enough to say and say that realism impels me to admit that the changes in Alabama and Mississippi will not come from within. I cannot see the changes coming short of massive federal action. I think the feelings are too great, the sickness too deep, the mass neuroses too pervasive to really bring about the change within in terms of the benevolence of the white power structure, but I think, with strong massive action from the federal government on many fronts, the people will inevitably yield to what comes down from our national leadership.

        Q. Are you satisfied, sir, that this dedication this administration is sufficient?
        K. Well, I would certainly say that the President is committed on civil rights. I have no doubt about that. He has made it clear that he is committed to the implementation of the civil rights bill and that he sees the moral implication of this whole struggle to make integration a reality in America. So, up to now, I have no gripes with President Johnson. I think he has moved on with dedication on the matter of civil rights.

        Q. Dr. King, inasmuch as there remains this superficial contradiction between your remarks, even today, and the Justice Department, that there has been some kind of misunderstanding as to who initiated the mention of the death threat to you...
        K. Well, I don’t--I didn’t know there was any misunderstanding or contradiction.

        Q. This morning L.A. Times was quite clear that the Justice Department said that you initiated the suggestion that there was a plot on your life and not they.
        K. Well, now, I never did say that the Justice Department initiated the suggestion. I never named the person who initiated the suggestion. When I was speaking in a mass meeting on Monday night when I mentioned this, I never gave any names, so I think the Justice Department may be quite sure in saying that because Mr. Katzenbach merely called me and expressed, as I said, great concern for my safety, but at that time he didn’t go into any details that I got about half an hour later in two other conversations.

        Q. I have one more question. Dr. King, in the terrible consistency of this...if something should happen to you, since you are the focal point of this non-violent group, at what point then would that non-violence turn into violence? Have you thought about that?
        K. Well, I certainly hope that nothing happens to me but I will be the first to say that if something ever happens to me, I would hope that the people who have tried to follow my leadership and have committed themselves to my philosophy would be as committed to it then as ever. I don’t believe in retalitory violence and if something happens to me or any leader in the non-violent movement, I would never advocate Negroes turning to violence as a retalitory approach to the problem.
        When you get in a non-violent movement, the one thing that you commit yourself to is the fact that you are standing up for truth and justice and what is right, and you are willing to face death, if necessary. We teach this day in and day out that we must be willing to accept blows without retaliation--and we are constantly beaten in this movement--and we go to the point of saying that if physical death is the price that some must pay to free the white brothers and their children from a permanent psychological death and a permanent death of the spirit, then nothing can be more redemptive, so I would feel and certainly hope that if anything should happen to any of us in the non-violent movement, that Negroes would react to this as non-violently as they have to the mobs in Mississippi and Alabama.

        Q. I would like to ask, Dr. King, if your organization gives any consideration to the possibility of another so-called “long hot summer”, as we has last summer and, if so, have you made plans to quell or hold it down, or keep it from starting in the first place?
        K. Well, one has to understand the meaning of “the long hot summer”. I don’t ever want to feel a long, hot, violent summer, but I think we will continue to have rather hot non-violent summers until this problem is solved, and we must face the fact that although we have made strides and we have made real progress, we still have a long, long way to go, not only in the South but in the North, and I think some of our most nagging problems in the future will be in big cities in the North in the area of jobs, and schools and housing, and I think that as long as these problems are there, we are going to have protest activities and demonstrations andit will keep the heat alive.
        My only hope is that our heat will always be non-violent and disciplined and carried out in a dignified manner.
        I just wanted to make a statement to thank the City Council and the County Board of Supervisors for declaring today and tomorrow MARTIN LUTHER KING DAYS. It is always a great pleasure to come to Los Angeles and we have gotten some of our greatest support, both financially and morally, from this great city and this great state, so I am deeply grateful to the Mayor and the City Council and the County Board of Supervisors for this warm expression of support.

TD. MLKJP-GAMK.